welcome to the speak and get what you want podcast
where you learn to communicate
like the world's most successful leaders
now here are your hosts TK Stratton and Chad Kirby
there's a proven principle
when it comes to communication
which is when you're stressed
you're often stupid and it's because
we behave in a way that's not consistent
with who we are
because of the stressful situations we're in
well today
we're gonna be talking about how you can take
stressful situations
for both you and a potential client
or someone you're working with
and how you can build trust through that
and in order to do that
I brought in one of the greatest mortgage brokers
in the business Trevor Coons Trevor
great to be with you today thanks
thanks Chad
I'm I'm excited to be here with you today
and you know what it what's interesting
Trevor is as we talk about stressful situations
when people go into the home buying experience
that can be one of the most stressful interactions they
they ever experience
so let's just start off by asking you this question
and that is how do you keep your clients calm
even when the situation could be pretty tense
or pretty stressful yeah
so it it's funny
it it kind of reminds me of uh
of when I had my first kid right
I I uh
I was all jacked up Kelly was induced
we're sitting in the hospital waiting waiting waiting
the pitocin's going
and like finally at 2 in the morning
she's ready to push and I am so excited
I'm so jacked up
I'm so nervous and the doctor comes in
he's been sleeping his hair's all messed up
he's got sleep in his eyes
he gets gets there and like
literally delivers the kid half asleep
cause he's done it so many times
so I I think that that's there's
there's something to be said there too
with loans is
there's a bunch of things that can go wrong in a loan
but having the experience of already being through it
being able to identify the stuff
that could possibly be a problem
down the line and then communication
I mean you know
I I think back you know
I've had clients that that don't want all the updates
they just want to get it done
they don't care what's going on behind the scenes
and I've had clients that want to
you know call me up twice a day to see hey
is anything else happened
so it's really
having an understanding of who your borrower is
what they need to feel comfortable
and then trying to address the problems
before they arise you know
a lot of times in alone you can see
an area here that underwriting might not like or
you know
a number that we're gonna probably have to explain
so the more upfront and and uh
forthright you can be about possible problems
when they come up you know
you have the faith that hey
we've already talked about this
you know this is not gonna be an issue we're
we're we have a
we have a plan of attack so I
I would say you know
well Trevor
I'm not to cut you off there
but you you said two pretty critically important things
when you said first
understand how the client
how the person wants to be communicated to um
that comes from listening from the onset
right and we've joked and talked about this podcast
on this podcast how people are terrible listeners
yeah for sure
right and
and most people have negative I
I wouldn't say most people have negative experiences
but the home buying
and I think it goes back to the expectations
like you were talking about
with the birth of your first child
um it's
you know you expect certain things
and sometimes they don't happen the way
now obviously
I'm biased I go out and say
you're the absolute best mortgage broker in the world
because you know
when you did our mortgage um
and when we were relocating from Phoenix to Idaho
we had a very dishonest builder
things kept going sideways
and it was really frustrating
and I was I mean
I had and this was 2,021
when you still had the crazy Covid buying
moving experience yeah
and and yet somehow
some way you were able to keep me calm
you know we
we were in this little rental
because there were no rentals available
where we were located in southeast Idaho
but you were able to keep me calm
but you had listened to me from the beginning
and understood how I wanted to be communicated to yeah
and you communicated to me in in that way and it
it met my expectations
but but most people just don't listen very closely yeah
and and I think too you know
whenever you're doing any job
it it can kind of start to seem routine
so part of part of you know
what I like to do with my clients is like
really put myself in their situation
you know like they have a home that needs to sell
they have moving trucks that are scheduled
on a certain day they're moving to another state
there most of the time when you're buying something
there's a ton of uncertainty
you're either going somewhere new
like like you you were moving from Arizona to to Idaho
you know and you wanna know that it's it's
it's gonna be taken care of
there's not many purchases you're gonna
make in your life that are gonna be more financially
you know impactful than
you know than buying a home
and so really kind of understanding that
you know these timelines and these people's lives are
they're trusting you
in order to be able to hit these certain mile markers
so that when the moving trucks
show up or
you know when it is time to to make that next leap
they're able to do that and I
I know it's frustrating
because there are a ton of things
I've already said this
that that can go wrong and alone
you know and there are delays and there are hiccups
and there are you know
stuff that you have to push back on
and so
really understanding that is part of the communication
too and the last thing you wanna do is
is hide information or say things are going smoothly
when when there's a problem that's arising because you
you totally lose all of the credibility
that you work so hard and
you know the
and the rapport
that you work so hard to establish with these people so
um I
I really do try to like I I know it sounds cheesy
but think of like if this was my sister
if this was my my dad if this was my cousin
would they you know how would they feel
you know treat them almost like their family
and and and you know like most of the time
you know you go on vacation in
in the mortgage world
and you're just available in another place right
you're you're still doing the job
you're still answering your phone and my wife
you know we were at Disneyland
when we were trying to close yours
and Callie would laugh every day and be like
is that Chad calling for his daily update
is that is that Chad
that's that's blowing you up again about the loan
I'm like yeah
but she understands too right
like there are this is people's lives
this is this is a big deal
so I always try to treat it as such
okay so why is it that we
and everyone listen to these podcasts is gonna
I'm gonna feel like they're in my camp here
for a second Trevor
when they say that like
we don't like having hard conversation yeah
for sure nobody oh
I hate conflict right
I hate it no
most of us are adverse to it
most of us are wired to where yeah
we don't want to you know
bring up the difficult conversation yep
right that's that's not what we want to do
but you just said right there you said look
you just need to tell people don't lie to them
don't be dishonest to them
when a lot of us would rather just be like
maybe not say I'm gonna be dishonest
but I'm just gonna pretend right
that's not right or or even or even with you know
you know an underwriting condition might be cleared
you know the next day
so you put off that realtor that's freaking out
and their clients freaking out just well
I'm just gonna put that person off and and you know
and then when I do talk to them
they'll be a solution but that's not good either
because I've had so many referrals come from other real
realtors that were you know
on the on the listing side
not on the buying side
but that appreciated my communication
and appreciated me being straightforward with them
and so sometimes conversations are hard
you know and sometimes it is like hey
I don't have an update for you right now
but at least I'm answering my phone and I'm telling you
I don't have an update so I right
right where
most people just want to send you the voice message
and they just like oh
I don't have an update so I'm not gonna say anything
right exactly
and and and part of it too is
you know I
I can't think of any loans that have gone so bad
that we didn't get them across the finish line
so sometimes you're you know
you're a coach sometimes you're you know
you're a cheerleader sometimes you're a friend
but really just letting them know like hey
this is this is not
maybe gonna happen in the timeline that we wanted to
but it's still gonna happen
you know and so I I think 1
identifying the problems up front
and being crystal clear on what the snags could be
and then 2
when the snags come just you just gotta bite the bullet
you just gotta tell them what's going on
you gotta communicate with all parties
you gotta let people know what's going on
and so and also
give them the confidence
that you have the ability to fix the problem right
like we've done this before right
it's gonna be fine there's a little bit of a setback
but we'll get it across the finish line you know
one of the things my Cassie always tells my wife
Cassie always tells our kids is
successful people do it now right
so like if they're supposed to take out the garbage
or they're to do the dishes or whatever it is
and they'll be like I will in a moment
I will in a moment and Cassie's always like
successful people do it now yeah right
and so I've I've always been out there preaching
Cassie's doctrine of successful people do it now
successful people do it now
and I even had
I shared that at a conference I was speaking at
and someone later showed me a tattoo that they got
on their arm that said
successful people yeah
do it now
but the reason why the reason why I share that um
Trevor is because that's what you're saying
when it comes to communication
when we want people to trust us
especially through maybe 10 situations
and we have something we have to share well
successful people do it now yeah
they they share that communication right now now now
with that being said how do you
how do you balance between honesty and optimism
when delivering what could be
hard news yeah
that's a great question I
I think a lot of it has to do with experience and know
you know knowing that
this isn't the first time this problem has come up
right and being able to say hey listen
this is a a a stumbling block for a minute
but we'll find a way around it you know
and part of that's your team
part of that's your processor part of that is
you know the
the branch that I work for and
and being able to have the tools
in order to go outside the box
or talk to an underwriter directly
about a condition that
I don't think that should be there
so it it is
it's having a game plan and and to what you said about
you know doing the hard things first
it's you know I think everybody's heard of like
eat the frog in the morning
cause if you don't
if you don't have the hard conversation
it lingers throughout the rest of the day
and it's in the back of your mind
and it's affecting other conversations that you have
and it's just kind of like this dark cloud
whereas after you get off the phone call
95% of them go better than you think they're gonna go
right now
95% of them once once you know
you think that
there's gonna be this devastating reaction
and people are gonna be so disappointed
but I I find that with you know
being upfront being honest
communicating throughout the process
95% of those hard conversations go better than you have
it made out in your mind to
to be this super you know
devastating thing so I
I I think
you know just kind of going straight at something and
and then straight through to the solution
well and
and you know what I I think it does also come down to
Trevor the intention that you have
and your intention
is to always get people to where they need to be
yeah right
I I hate the phrase someone just says well
I'm brutally honest yeah
I I once heard someone say that
those who are interested in being brutally honest
are more interested in being brutal than honest right
but your intention isn't the brutality of it
but
your intention is to get them to where they need to be
so that they have complete visibility
into what's happening yeah
for sure my
my dad's like that
he's the type of dude that can just say anything
to anybody in the same monotone tone
and it doesn't affect him
he he
he he's just like yeah
well here's the truth
here's how I see it and I'm not
I'm not saying that's just not my style
I'm way more of an empath
you know and I put myself in their shoes and
you know I
I don't want to I don't want to overly
you know look at it through rosy glasses
because sometimes stuff comes up and we gotta pivot
and we you know
we need letters and we have time crunches and like
it's tough but again
up till this point
there's there's nothing that's really stopped
you know eventually crossing the finish line
you know even
even real
even real estate agents that want to make it difficult
on on the other end
so well and
and you used the word just a moment ago
that I wanna double click on here for
just for a second
and that's you you talked about empathy
cause I remember getting
extremely frustrated with our situation right
and when when you know
our builder had leans against the home
and he wasn't being honest
and all these different frustrations
that we were having and um
I remember you saying things like
oh man Chad that's brutal
that stinks and you really acknowledged my frustration
that I was in but then you would say okay
but let me tell you something
this is how we're gonna get through this
and then you showed me the path moving forward
now what I appreciated
was the fact that you allowed me to be frustrated
for a second
and not just discounted it and jumped into okay okay
yeah yeah
whatever Kirby we're gonna be fine
this is how we're gonna be fine right yeah
so so what is it about you that allows you to really
because if everyone listening
just would spend a moment
and listen to what others are saying
and pause and really reflect for a moment
just be like oh man
that's brutal
there was never a moment where you thought
we weren't closing this loan right
but man I was frustrated
yep but and you and you let me feel validated
I guess validated is the word I'm looking for yeah
you know and so is that something you do intentionally
or is it just something that comes naturally for you
because a lot of people just want to jump to rescuing
rather than validate yeah
I you know
uh I don't I don't know
I'm a middle child you know
so you I I
I I think that some of that is in intrinsic in you know
trying to balance
you know my role in in in a kind of chaotic family
but um really it just cause I care about my clients
you know when it comes down to it again
we're talking about probably the biggest
the the biggest purchase they're gonna make
and and it's different for everybody
because you have some guys that are
you know three or four
five properties deep
and they're buying another investment
and they know the game and it's
it's a different conversation
but you know right
first time home buyer
was someone that's moving from a different state
that's starting a new career
like you you really gotta
you gotta try to put yourself in
their shoes to understand where they're coming from
and how best to communicate with them and
and I I
I find that that does kind of come naturally for me um
I I don't
I don't like uh
I don't like disappointing people
you know and I don't like people to feel like
you know there's just no way to do it
so it is a healthy balance of
of trust me like we got this is
you know and
and the same as yeah man
I understand this sucks like
you know I totally understand that this is what
you know we were not hoping for this outcome
but X y Z
you know and we just keep going
right I love that
and I I love that you
you just really focus
on understanding where people are coming from
and in a world right now where it
it continues to become more and more AI driven where
you know people are dealing with a lot of uh
bots rather than humans
and that human touch that you bring to the table
where people feel validated
people feel listened to people feel heard that I mean
there's no reason I
for me it's easy to see why you're so successful
because people feel that when they're with you
yeah yeah
so so
so Trevor let me ask you this question
if someone were saying okay Trevor
I hear what you're saying
how can I get better at that
how can I get better at and and and it could be
you know the way you're able to always ask questions
because for me
whenever you and I were having a conversation
you were always asking a ton of questions right
and so as you say
really understand where they're coming from
is it the questions that really get you
yeah it is and a lot of that is up on the front end
a lot of it is is okay tell me about your your
your your housing situation
tell me about your family
tell me about how many kids you have
tell me about your job are you transferring somewhere
like
the more information that I can get on the front end
the the more that I can I can understand this person
as more of a family member
and this sounds super cheesy
it's kind of like the you know
brutally honest statement
but if you can look at someone
like a sister or a brother
you know
if you can kind of bring them into your family and say
this is what I would do for
someone that I was related to
this is what I would do for an amazing friend right
these these are the
these are the times that I would allocate these
these are the hours
that I would answer that phone call right
if if you can
if you can do that
with someone who starts as a stranger
that will by the end of it
it's not hard anymore because
you know I had a guy text me yesterday um
you know Happy Father's Day
thank you so much for helping me and my family
get into a home like
you know that's
that's not that that feels like an extension of
you know so
a call I'd get from a brother or a sister in law
or something like that and I
that's when I know it's working
you know is
when they have the same feelings
that I'm trying to project towards them
is I I want you to feel
when you come and we are gonna do a deal together
that you feel like I'm going to fight for you
like you're you're one of my own
and and
you know Trevor I
I appreciate you sharing all these things where you go
OK listen
validate empathize
really ask questions
that help you understand where somebody's coming from
and that's not just when you're
you know uh
creating or helping someone with their mortgage
but it's in every aspect of our life
but let me ask you this when
where do people go wrong
when you're dealing with these high
tense situations'cause I'm
I know I I
as great as you are and I honestly
I believe you're the best in the business
I know you've made mistakes
yeah and I know you've gone like oh
that went sideways
where do people go wrong in high stakes
tense conversations or I
I feel like when anybody's looking to point a finger
it's it's going the wrong direction
you know I
I feel like looking for a scapegoat
trying to transfer ownership of the process
you know I work with a lot of buyers right
and and the buyer is represented by
by my realtor that I'm working with
and then the seller is represented by another seller
another agent and and sometimes
those seller
agents are maybe not the most successful agents
they don't have the experience that you know
a more seasoned and they're they're you know
with this economy they're counting on this commission
you know
and so they're emotionally attached to this outcome
it
it's so much as resting on this being completed that
that
that they might be looking at things a little bit too
uh intensely
they might be uh you know
putting so many eggs in one basket
that if there's a little hiccup
there's a freak out so I I
I try to just be a a calming voice of of it's
it's all gonna work out you know
I've I've made mistakes I've uploaded
I've uploaded sample tax returns that were uh
that were off from the the
the the finalized ones
and that caused a huge problem with underwriting
so mistakes are made no one's perfect but it's it again
it comes down to like we can fix it
we're all trying to make this deal close together
we should all be more on the same team rather than hey
it's the seller versus the buyer or this
it this agent versus the other agent
or let's all blame the lender or
you know like when fingers start getting pointed
that you're way further away from finding a solution
than if we're all working together
and understanding at the end of the day
we all want it to close like
I'm not actively working against you right
I am trying to make this happen for
for everyone so I
I think just kind of having that understanding that um
that that pointing fingers blaming
looking for scapegoat
is just pulling you further away from
from a solution that's probably right in front of you
right and I love that and
and it really goes back to
when we start taking things personal yeah
then that's when you know
things start going sideways
is that is that what you attribute your uh
successful golf game to oh man
I wish I had oh
I wish I wish it was more successful
I I
I have a I
I you know I'm
I'm really hard on myself
I have a tough inner voice
and so that inner voice comes out on the golf course
quite a bit so
I'm constantly trying to calm myself
down on the golf course
yeah well
I think Trevor
what you've shared with us today
the importance of maintaining that um
calm demeanor the importance
of understanding
where that other person is coming from
and not taking it personal
um because at the end of the day
when you get into that finger pointing experience
and Trevor I've never once
never once been in a high stakes conversation
where finger pointing started happening
and it ends up good right exactly
exactly
and and people
people get so caught up in being right
than just solving the situation
and just creating a resolution
that's right and I always tell people hey
if you want if you need somebody to be mad at and you
and and you
and you wanna you wanna get some some
some words out that's fine
you can do it on the phone call
but then let's go back to figuring out how we're gonna
make it work right
if I need to be a punching bag for a little bit
I can handle that it doesn't hurt my feelings too bad
you know
and we might not do a deal together down the road
but that's okay too or maybe we will
but like you know
you can take a few shots you
you can say what you need to say and then let's move on
you know
yeah it's it
but it goes back to what you're saying Trevor
we've got to quit taking everything personal and
and really finishing up with where we started
because if you recognize the fact that
when people are stressed they're stupid
yeah right
when I ask people Trevor
when I ask people all the time at a conference
where I'll be speaking somewhere
and I'll say how many of you
have ever behaved in a way that's not consistent
with who you are right
whether you're calling the insurance company
your mortgage broker or your
you know or your accountant or bank whatever
every single person raises their hand
yeah we've all had that experience where we're like
I was under stress
and I behaved in a way that wasn't consistent
yep with who I was and
and Trevor I just know
from my personal experience working with you
I Learned so much from you um
how to deal with a very tense situation
because you dealt with me
you know when we were
you know I relocated my entire family into this small
rental home
as we were getting ready to move into our house and um
and it was a crazy roller coaster of an experience
but you were able
to utilize those tools that you just shared listening
showing empathy
and the one that I really want to emphasize to
as we wrap up
is putting yourself in that person's situation
yep and and
and I felt validated all along the way
absolutely love what you share Trevor
someone has a question or wants to get a hold of you
what's the best way to do it
uh probably my cell phone
uh 2 0 6
3 4
9 8 8
7 8
give me a call I'm
I'm licensed everywhere so I do
I do the majority in Washington and Arizona
but um
I can help out nationwide
wow that's it
just give the cell phone one more time
a little slower uh 2 0 6
3 4
9 8
8 7
8 and that's my personal cell phone
I give that out I know a lot of people don't
don't give their personal cell phone out
but again most of the time these people
if something's hit in the fan
they want someone that'll answer at 8:30
you know 9 o'clock at night on the weekends and
and I try to provide that for for
for my my clients
I love it Trevor
thanks for sharing what you shared
great being with you have a tremendous day
my bro thanks Jeff
appreciate it take care bye now