welcome to the speak and get what you want podcast
where you learn how to communicate
like the world's greatest leaders
hey welcome everyone to the speaking
get what you want podcast
I'm here again with the great TK Stratton
and today TK we're gonna be talking about something
that's one of the most difficult things
or one of the difficult
most difficult traps not to fall into um
and I say that because
what we're gonna talk about is a mistake that almost
everybody makes and I
I almost dare say everybody because TK
you and I are aware of the trap
and sometimes we
even at times will have to catch ourselves
making sure that we don't fall into this trap as well
and the trolley the trap in the communication um
strategy that we talk about is the credential trap
and the credential trap really stems from
the principle that we talk about TK
that everyone's favorite subject is themselves
and and everyone wants to talk about themselves
so when it comes to the credential trap
it's having the discipline
to not try and credentialize yourself
and what we mean by that is TK
that's what everyone wants to do
totally totally this is a big big thing
and I I think this
this can be either a deal maker or deal breaker
for a lot of people this one thing
and this is how you connect with people
like what we were just talking about
but yeah this is a big one today
I I think this is
this is a big one that everyone needs to
to listen to and work on cause this is a big deal
and and if you're
if you're sitting here listening to this podcast today
going whatever it might be
if you saying I wanna close more business
I wanna make more money I wanna be a better leader
whatever it is chances are
one of the things preventing you from
really hitting your stride
and really achieving what you hope to achieve
is your
it's your temptation to fall into that credential trap
and so what what is the credential trap
well it's exactly TK you can share
but it's exactly what the name describes it as
you know yeah
it's it's you know when it's
it's exactly what it is
credentialing yourself so much that um
with with things that people really don't care about
or they
they really it's not even part of what they wanna hear
so sometimes we think that oh
I've done all of this
they're gonna wanna know all this
they wanna hear about it
and it's actually the opposite
you know people
we go back to people's favorite subject is themselves
it's more about finding out about their credentials
and what they like and building them up
and then if they wanna know more about you
they're gonna ask you
but if we just go in hard and heavy with all
this ammunition on how great we are
people gonna put up guards real quick
cause they don't wanna hear it
or they're just gonna check out
but so many people fall into this
we got several examples
we're gonna talk about about this today uh
between you and I and I
I think this is a big thing that can uh
make or break deals
relationships everything just cause of this
and you know it's interesting
TK is I
I've worked with hundreds and hundreds of attorneys
and this is perhaps
the principle that they give me the most push back on
because they'll say no
no Chad I have to credentialize myself
the the client is looking for an attorney
that's had all this success and done all this
and I've done all that so yeah
that's what they're looking for and I'm like no
I promise you
I promise you that's not what they want they're like no
they do and it's in some attorneys will
we'll come along and go like
okay Chad
I'll try it out and see and those who do are like
oh my goodness
I can't believe what a trap that is you know
they will they will exponentially grow their firm
if they'll just stay out of that trap
but it is one of the principles
and people listening on the podcast DK
are probably thinking no
I have to tell them all that I've accomplished
when I'm sitting down with a potential client
they need to know everything I've done since 12th grade
you know and so they want to break it down and
and it's just certainly it's
it's not the case it's funny
you see that on those billboards
those attorney billboards
you see some of them
it's a picture of the guy and how great he is
and what he's done
and then you see the simple ones like
like a that in Iraq need a check
you know it's all about you
you know it's so simple
simple message
but it was all about me and how I get my check
that's all they care
I don't even care about how good the attorney is
I don't care where he went to school
I don't care how many cases he's done
it's oh yeah
I'd like a check you know
cause it's all about me
and so I think that's a big deal that
that's a great example you know on
on marketing it absolutely
and there are other industries that
that don't lend itself to it as much right
when you go meet with a doctor for a surgery
they typically
don't
start telling about all the surgeries they've done
right they just
right but
but when it comes to attorneys
and when it comes in the construction industry
and the service industry man
we feel like I've gotta I've gotta explain everything
and even more so if you're in the sale
if you're doing any sort of sales okay
if you're doing any sort of sales
it's a trap that almost every sales individual
falls into
they think they have to tell all of their successes
so that you know
that there are qualified sales wrap right
or a qualified individual to do this deal with you
and and and TK and TK you shared
you shared with me the story of
of when you were consulting with that individual
and they were looking to do a real estate deal
and how that is you know
great example just happened this last week
you know and
but these these
couple guys are out raising equity
for doing real estate deals
and they had an equity guy
that equity group
that flew in from New York to meet with him
and asked me to please hey
can you come to the meeting with us
help us out
help us answer his questions what we're looking at
we've done equity raises and stuff like that
so I was like sure
happy to help
so we show up and one of the guys during the meeting um
that the two so these two equity guys show up
we have we show up for lunch
we sit down
and immediately the two guys that I'm there with
start talking about how great they are
how many deals they've done what they're looking for
they have a deal ready to go and how big it is
and they had told me that man
this is gonna be tough
because this particular equity group
typically doesn't write checks as big as
what they're looking for
on this particular real estate deal
you know they
they needed like a 20 25 million dollar
equity check from someone to do this big
real estate deal that they had signed up with
and they're like man
this group typically doesn't write checks that big that
that they know of and so
they're really trying to hype up this deal
and get them to write this big check
and they just immediately started talking
without even listening
to these guys that just flew in from New York
they had already had a bunch of meetings that day
and they just sat there like
literally
just close their mouths and looked at them listening
never said anything
and this went on for probably 15 minutes
which is a long time
you know how many years they've been in business
how many deals they've done
the sizes how
how great they are you know
how profitable they've been
all these types of things
and these guys are just sitting here listening
and then finally I just kind of budget in and I said
hey tell us about you guys what
what kind of deals do you guys look for
and you know what what
what areas of the market are you
are you interested in and things like that
it was completely opposite of
of the the equity
they were looking for and they never asked
and so it just kind of changed the whole meeting
because the the meeting was just falling apart
you know
cause these guys were just sitting there listen nuts
not not saying anything
and the meeting was just going nowhere
so come to find out
these guys actually don't write checks that small
the smallest check they write is $30 million
and that was never even asked
and so they flew all the way out here for this deal
and it was never even asked what type of real estate
what areas of you know
what markets they look at
if they were even interested in this market
any of that anyways we started talking about them
we started building them up and then just saying wow
you know it's really amazing how much
equity your fund has raised
and how many deals you guys have done
you know and just really building them up
and by the end of the meeting
they were like you know what
we typically don't write checks
that small for those deals
but why don't you send it to us
if we can create a relationship here
to do more deals with you guys
um we're well
we would be interested in doing a deal as
small as what you guys have
and so is I mean the meeting ended up going okay
but it was going in a really bad direction
just because they spent so much time
credentialing themselves when
they probably already knew more about those two guys
in the deals they had done
than those two guys knew about themselves
these guys are smart guys
are smart from smart guys from New York
they do their research
they wouldn't have flown all the way out here
until they unless they looked up the people
and so there's no need to go in and talk about
all these things about yourself
with someone who probably already knows a lot
and doesn't need to hear more
but it the success happens when you talk about them
and when you don't credential what you do
but you ask them questions what are you interested in
what do you do what would you like to see
what uh returns would you like to see in your fund
those types of things
before you start credentialing what you've done
because what you've done
you may not have anything to offer
or there may be a deal there
but unless you ask questions
and stop talking about yourself
and credentialing yourself
you're not gonna know
and that's what I think the credential trap really is
and how many times do we do that
when we go into a job interview
when we go into a meeting
we wanna tell the person how great we are
and how much we've done
thinking that that's gonna gain their interest
when it's actually the opposite
if you can focus on talking about the other person
and their credentials
and what they've done and build them up wow
that's amazing what you've accomplished
tell me more about you and what you're interested in
what if if I were to work here
what would you like to see
those types of questions
to determine if you would be a good fit
or if it would be a good fit for you
before you even start credentialing yourself
and after you credential them
they're probably gonna ask you questions about you
for you to then talk about yourself
but we go backwards you know
if you immediately start credentialing yourself
it's probably stuff that they don't even do
or you don't even know if they're interested in right
so that's what I think the credential trap is
it's a trap it literally is a trap
and it'll make your meetings go south really quickly
because we feel
that's what the other person wants to hear
when it's not
in in the irony
TK is often times when you're in the trap
you don't even realize you're in the trap
you're telling them all about your successes
and you're thinking in your mind
perhaps I'm crushing this I'm crushing this yeah
it's going great and it's like no
it's not no it's not yeah
you're actually in the middle of the trap
and so taking the time
to just ask them about their credentials
and so someone says well TK
how do you stay out of the credential trap
ask yourself this question
do you know as much about their credentials
or what makes them tick
or do you know more about your credentials and what
absolutely that's a great that's a great phrase
you know do you know more about them than
than your own credentials
that's where it should be
you should know more about them than trying to say
about what you've done and you know
what also is important to note is that
the confident individual the confident individual
ask questions about the other person
ask questions about those in the meeting
you actually
then look like the smartest person in the room
you know years ago
TK I was in the financial services industry
and we were going in to do this huge um
buy sell agreement for this you know
very very large company
and the company's ownership was young
they were you know they were in their late twenties
okay and we are sitting down chatting with them
and I brought somebody with me because this
I was new in the industry
and I'm like this is way over my head right
so then and he was gonna be very strategic
and do some complicated things
and he sat down and he started explaining everything
to this ownership group okay
four out of the five owners just sat there
and nodded their heads
and and I sat back and I was like
I'm in the financial industry service industry
I have no idea what this guy's talking about right
and one individual goes hey
I have a question could you tell me more about this
could you tell me more about this
tell me more about this and immediately I thought
that's actually the smartest person in this room yeah
because the other four owners
wanted to talk about how much money they had
how much they wanted to protect
you know they were talking
kind of both
being boastful about all the success that they had
but there was one who was like wow
I didn't understand that word
explain that to me explain that to me
and I immediately thought
that's the absolute smartest person here
and so the confident individual
the person who feels good about themselves
is actually
not the one worried about credentializing themselves
and telling about all their successes
and all they've done
but rather
they're interested in the other person's credentials
and think about this for a moment TKI
years ago I was speaking in an event with
two individuals that I really admired
one of them was Simon Sennick and the other one
I won't mention their name for obvious reasons here
in just a moment but after the event
I was speaking with these individuals
and they were both you know
people I really admired
Simon Sinic in this other individual
and after the event
with the speakers were all standing around talking
and I went up to Simon Sinnick and I was like
oh my goodness
Simon that that presentation was incredible
that was awesome that was so good
and he just nodded his head and he's like
oh wow you know
he was he's like you're very kind you know
and then he goes tell me what do you do
tell me about you and start asking questions about
and I'm just laying all these compliments on Simon
sinning because I thought he was just brilliant
and he didn't
really worry about everything I was saying
he was like so tell me
tell me more about why you spoke about what you
you know and it was all about me
and I left TK
with that inner interaction with Simon Senick
I left going oh my goodness
he's incredible
like he didn't turn to me TK and be like
well that's nothing you should yeah
you left you left a fan you know
you left as a fan
and he didn't even need to say all that he had done
or how great he was at all
you know you just asked about you
and because he asked about you and you're now a fan
and I think that's the same way
even even as an employer
when you're going in to look for a job
you talk about them the whole time not about you
and if when they wanna know more
they're gonna ask you
but that comes after you find out about them
and it takes discipline TK
it takes discipline to really sit down
because going back to your example you gave in the
in the real estate deal
you want that
to those people from New York that flew out to Phoenix
that individual wanted hey listen
we know our stuff we've done this
we've done that it's a temptation to really do that
yeah but the goal is to sit back and go
and learn more about that individual
and Simon cynic
asking about me and why I speak about what I speak
I left you know
totally raving about Simon cynic
as I was walking out the door
that I crossed past
an individual that I admired even more than Simon
Sennick before the event
I had read multiple books from him
and I turned to him and said hey
that was a great presentation
and he was just like yeah yeah
I'm I'm just
and he started explaining everything that he's done
I already knew that I read his books
but I left TK
I've never picked up one of his books again
I know that sounds weird and maybe even um
I don't know it might even sound petty
but it was such a weird interaction
because he only wanted to talk about his successes
and I had just had that experience with Simon
just moments before where it was about me yeah
isn't that crazy you know
that's that's kind of where we go
I think it goes back to you can never assume
uh what another person is wanting or where they're at
you can't assume
and I think that's what happens too much
is we assume that they wanna know all of this about us
and it's constantly assumed
I watch it all the time you do too
of people who go into these meetings
assuming that that's what they wanna hear
or assuming what they want
and you don't know you can't assume
you have to ask and that's where it starts
and then you don't waste people's time
and even if you don't have something that they want
you find out really quickly and then that you hey
you know that's probably not a fit here
and I've had those meetings before
you know I don't think there's a fit here
I don't think we have the thing that you would need
and I wouldn't be the best fit for you
but you know
really quick rather than me making a fool out of myself
just constantly saying how great I am
what I have and what I have to offer
and it's nothing that they're even looking for
you know that's a breakfast point TK
that's a huge point yeah
I had a breakfast last week
these guys wanted to take me to breakfast
it's a window company big window company
I was like oh
you know
I haven't really looked into it or heard much of it
I you know
I had some friends say yeah
it's a really neat system these guys offer
so they want to take me to breakfast
I go to breakfast I sit down and they're really quiet
you know for whatever reason is kind of awkward
so I said well hey
where are you guys from you know
you know just trying to get the conversation going
and then it just kind of got them more comfortable
and then they just started going off on
all the businesses that they've owned
everything that they've done
nothing about the windows
and I was like well
you know just thinking in my head
why are we at breakfast you know
and never ask me anything about what I do
or what I look for or
you know the types of deals or construction
or anything that we do at all
and at the very end they say yeah
we do these windows and it has this process and this
this thing and come to find out
we have no use for what they offer at all
I I
I don't we don't use that
with any of the building that we've done
and this would have just been so much easier
even if we would have had a phone call or whatever
before they you know
pushed that
they were pushing for this meeting with me for
you know a while
and I I finally agreed to meet with them sure
you know I'm happy to look at it
but it has nothing to do with anything that we do
and they never asked you know
and so we spent this whole breakfast talking about them
I don't want to say it's a waste of time
but because I was happy to meet with them
and talk with them
hopefully help them if I can refer them
but it's just kind of funny
you know you watch this happen so much
you know that we try and credential ourselves
assuming
that that's what the other person's wanting to hear
and you can't assume and a lot of times people um
we underestimate what they have or what they can do
or even how smart they are
and it's underestimated and so
we just say all this stuff
when they might already know
a lot of what we were gonna tell them
but we assumed the opposite
and so you can't assume you gotta ask questions well
it it seems like
Assumption is the step into the credential trap right
we assume that they wanna hear our credentials
we assume you know
it's interesting you bring this up TK
I was listening to a sales organization um
not too long ago where every sales rep
because the lead came in
they assumed the person wanted their services right
yep so they just would be like
so the person got on the call and they'd be like
oh um
and they just start
the sales rep just start just quickly talking
talking talking
talking credentializing the company
credentializing themselves on and on
and then there was one sales rep
the most successful of all the raps
and his first question was this
so tell me what made you wanna hop on the call today
and then the person goes oh
well I heard that you guys do X
y and Z and I really need that oh
X y Z okay
I was thinking you were wanting a B C but X
y Z yes we do do that and they
and the person was super successful
because everybody was assuming t k
all this is why they are calling
I'm gonna throw out all the credentials Adam
I'm gonna quickly let them know
but instead the best sales rep would just say
so what made you wanna jump on the call today with me
right
and then the person would tell them everything and then
right
but when you brought up the Assumption
being the step into the credential trap
it just got me thinking that yeah
that's what a difference
just telling them everything as opposed to assuming
right and so TK
so
why is it that you wanted to come to breakfast with us
well you guys kept calling
and I thought I would hear what you guys do well
do you have any idea what we do
what is it that you do TK
where's your knee you know
and you talk through it and it changes everything right
totally you know
and you know
your your chances of success are far greater
because now you're really listening to the person
and you're understanding what they're even looking for
before you just start talking
you know uh huh
it happens so much but yeah
I think this is a massive thing
that can help so many people
if they will listen and and take those steps
you know so it's on credentialing yourself
don't assume what an employer or
or someone you're calling
or someone who even called you
looking for a product is wanting
you can never assume you can't ask questions well
in that in just being so it just
so many people are so insecure
that they have to constantly
try and credentialize themselves
to find worth and to find value
but what TK and I are suggesting is that
the more you learn about other people
the more the value or your self esteem will grow
TK you shared an earlier podcast
if you want to increase your self esteem what do you do
yeah give other more self esteem
you know and and your guy Simon Sinic
I remember we have that hung up in our in our office
the office where you would come in and consult with us
that was said by Simon Sinic
people who feel good about themselves
produce good results
right that's not true
you know
and when you have when you feel good about yourself
you're not worried about credentialing yourself
cause it doesn't matter
you already feel good about yourself
so you don't need to so you sit and listen to people
so that's a big thing but even if you don't
focusing on the other person
will give you that success
it absolutely will so if we were to break this down
TK's
we wrap up this podcast and think about this huge trap
because I'm telling you right now
the reason why I say it's so massive
is because if you can conquer this
it will be your gateway to being a better leader
making more money
closing more business growing your business
whatever it may be right if you really
really think about overcoming this credential trap
so what do you do
the very first thing TK that you point out
don't assume when you go to a meeting
do not assume the second thing
learn about the credentials of the other person
and and by the way TK
you
you the one who taught me this using those three words
tell me more you
you'd be stunned how excited people get
when you're like well
you're learning the credentials about
of the other person and you're
and they're like yeah
I went to uh actually got my MBA from UCLA oh really
tell me more about that oh
well it was always been my goal you know
and they tell you everything they really will so No. 1
I wanna assume number two
find out the credentials of the other person
and then and then No. 3
you will be able to have the success you want
by simply doing that so 1
don't assume 2
get their credentials to the other person and 3
buckle up because your success will be yours
I promise you TK
how many times have you and I seen this
oh so many times
you know
and I can't count how many times I've made the mistake
you know going into a meeting
and I say all the stuff on what I have for them
and I just made a fool out of myself
cause it's not even close to what they're looking for
you know so you just feel yeah
it's not a good feeling
but you learn so that it just goes to show
we've all made that mistake
I made that mistake and myself several times
but it shows the importance
you can't assume what someone's wanting
or what they're looking for
you have to ask
it's exactly right and and
and
as excited as you are about sharing your credentials
share those with your significant other
share with your dog share with whoever um
and and I say it like that
tongue in cheek
because eventually in a conversation with people
you'll get to share your credentials down the road
you'll get to share experiences but down the road
so remember those three things and watch
how successful you'll be as I
as I mentioned earlier
with the hundreds and hundreds of attorneys
I've worked with this
they give me the biggest pushback on this
they give me of all of them
this is the biggest pushback I get
on this credential trap and TK
you sit firsthand and watch when people are successful
they're not falling into this trap right right
it's awesome great being with you always TK
everyone have a tremendous day